Face Off
Less than a month until elections, how about some debates?
Here I am agreeing with Yanukovych again. The pro-Yanu ForUm people quotes Yanukovych as "dreaming of holding TV debates with Yushchenko," and also hoping to debate with Yekhanurov.
Of course we part ways when he says that he would only like to debate with those two and none else. Watching him spar with Tymoshenko in a debate would be an opportunity I'd truly cherish. But hey, I'd love to see him debate with Yekhanurov, too. Give the man what he wants!(but let Ty come)
If a debate does happen, expect more pointless discussion of making Russian a second national language. I'm with Tymoshenko, if this issue was important to Yanukovych, you might have expected him to do something, anything, about it during his two years as Prime Minister. He didn't because it's both divisive and relatively unimportant - a bad thing to talk about while in power, but a great subject for pre-election rhetoric. Meanwhile the rest of the world, including Russia, is learning ESL.
NATO is also likely to come up, because so many Ukrainians are opposed and the anti-Oranges have been on a signature drive against it. Would have been nice if the Yushchenko government had ever done that public awareness/public support drive they have been meaning to do for so long. Now all they can do is whine about provocations.
Strong Division
Tymoshenko has repeatedly stated that there is no way she would join in coalition with Regions of Ukraine after the election. This, of course, earns her the freedom to try to guilt NSNU into staying away as well. She adds to it accusations that NSNU is conducting secret negotiations to form exactly that coalition with Regions.
While Tymoshenko is certainly agitating for rapproachment after the election, she doesn't want to join her bloc with theirs before the election. The Pora people are wasting their time protesting in front of Tymoshenko HQ, because of this reluctance to join in a united "Orange" bloc. Well of course she's reluctant.
This is a no-brainer on her side: NSNU raises voter suspicion for, among other things, ties to big businessmen like Petro Poroshenko (nothing on Regions of Ukraine, of course, but then, who's counting?). Her bloc is mistrusted primarily for a different reason: not really having a sober economic agenda, as well as some of the accusations back in September that she was trying to reprivatize assets to Privat Bank because she had ties to it. If BYT and NSNU combined they would be more likely to pool voter suspicion than admiration - leading to fewer votes overall. On top of that Tymoshenko would have less control over her own chunk of the total, and less personal visibility (oddly enough, Interfax places her as having the highest voter confidence of any Ukrainian politician. Perhaps she's getting a good response to her public relations campaign?). Since she's obviously going to make the 3% barrier, there's no compelling reason to join with Yushchenko at all.
The only folks who would really have benefitted would have been, not surprisingly, Pora, because right now they are getting only around 1% support on polls, which would not be enough to get them into the Rada. Which begs this question: why are they whining about attaching themselves to blocs when they could be spending their time trying to raise their support base to the 3% minimum for getting seats?
A Word To Pora: Take those activists off Tymoshenko's doorstep and do something useful with them, for goodness sake. They'd be more effective campaigners for you if they were doing practically anything else, including cleaning litter of the street.
As a side note, Pora is technically now in the Klitchko bloc. Again a group defined by ideology drifts into a group defined only by a single charismatic personality. Much as I like Klitchko, this is sad.
Media
Yushchenko has called for denationalization of the media, which is good. Last year at the height of OR optimism, some important figures were calling for the opposite: more state media in the form of a new public broadcasting TV station. In this country, state-controlled media is an easy tool for producing biased news (as the run up to November 2004 proved); much better to use funds elsewhere.
Gas Gab
Zerkalo Nedeli is still hammering away at the gas deal, Ukrainska Pravda is balancing it with a horrifically translated but interesting article on gas and oil theft.
Yekhanurov, by contrast, said last week that Ukraine and Turkmenistan had solved their gas dispute, a claim echoed by RFE-RL using info from ITAR-TASS. What was discussed and decided doesn't seem solid enough to ensure anything like long-term price stability, but it will last through the election, after which it will be the new Parliament's problem.
Dan McMinn
in 08) Oil and Gas, 09) The Media, 10) The Cabinet, 11) Tymoshenko - Bloc Yulia Tymoshenko, 16) Opposition, 21) Public Opinion, 31) Mar 2006 Parl. Election
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Reader Comments (12)
By chance did you catch Kuzio's disagreement with Aslund over the matter of Tymoshenko and Yushchenko?
I found it a bit on the hilarious side.
Switiching gears a bit, here's a link to the situation in Moldova which very much relates to Ukraine:
http://www.russiablog.org/2006/03/moldova_the_overlooked_of_the_1.html#more
That might deal with some of the problems of distrust, though it would help if Yekhanurov was less camera-shy?
dlw
Can you point me to at least ONE civilized 'democracy' with ONE state language where the general public is bilingual? You're sitting pretty in California - half of that state speaks Spanish. Would you make the argument that US should abandon Spanish as an official state language and that the issue is 'pointless, divisive, unimportant?'
You miss the point - Moldova is not forgotten, it's 'loyal' i.e. anti-Russian hence an ally. It's not that no one cares, but rather that it's not worth pouring money into NGOs in a state that's already licking your ass. Or do you really think that US only supports 'color democracies?'
dumaite, chytaite.
I chuzhoho nauchaites',
Svoho ne tsuraites'..."
--Taras Shevchenko
Oh wait, but if you only understood Ukrainian!
Let me translate it for you: "Learn, my brothers, think, read. And learn about others, but do not renounce your own."
Shevchenko is saying Learn Russian. Learn Ukrainian. Open you minds to the world, but be proud of your language, your culture.
I am a red-blooded American who loves the Russian language, who learned Ukrainian, who would love to speak better Spanish and dive into Kazakh-language studies. I grew up in a monolinguistic environment and if I were a California-born citizen I would certainly be speaking Spanish better.
It is unfortunate that in Western Ukraine, the heart of so-called "nationalism," people buy Russian books, watch Russian TV shows, hold conversations with Russian-speaking friends and family -- while in East and South Ukraine, no one even bothers to learn Ukrainian as a matter of principle.
Whereas millions of white kids in the US are learning Spanish in schools and speaking fluent Spanish and millions of Chicanos are packing ESL classes to learn English, Russophones in East and South Ukraine refuse to open their minds and learn Ukrainian, a mutually intelligable tongue.
You, not "pugnatious nationalistic fascism" are to blame for this.
Lalulu - you have provided the proof to this. Aye, verily, aye.
In western Ukraine, the west Ukrainian dialect and modern day "canon" Ukrainian are regularly utilized.
In eastern Ukraine - Russian and Surzhyk dominate.
In souher Ukraine - Russian is supreme.
In Central Ukraine, it's mostly Russian with canon Ukrainian and Surzhyk evident.
I don't know if it's so accurate to depict western Ukraine as the more open minded of the regions.
Lalu:
The bizarre thing about Moldova is how Dick Morris backed a Moldovan orange type while Ruslana supported the ethnic Russian Commie Voronin for president.
I know all about how some American media/political elites can spin a situation. I think we're on the same page when it comes to that particular matter.
In Ukraine, I sense that some former Blue bad boys might be re-spun as enlightened individuals.
The coming months will provide for some great political theater with the Rada election and Rusia assuming the G-8 chair. The Council on Foreign Relations is about to issue a blistering attack on Russia, designed to no doubt provoke bad relations to poison Russia's G-8 chair.
Wikipedia: Some states, such as Sweden, Tuvalu, the United Kingdom, and the United States have no official language, although in most such cases there is a single de facto main language, as well as a range of government regulations and practices on which languages are expected to be used in various circumstances.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_language
I needn't ask the CA govt to abandon Spanish as a second language because it never adopted it as one.
"Can you point me to at least ONE civilized 'democracy' with ONE state language where the general public is bilingual?"
The Netherlands - the only official language of the Netherlands is Dutch, though essentially the entire country is bilingual, with German and English the two biggest second langauges.
"why can't I get a job in Sevastopol where everybody speaks Russian and know little Ukrainian just because I can't pass the obligatory language test? Can somebody please tell me why do I as a businessowner have to pay off some rada orangechiks just so I don't get closed down for hiring employees that don't speak Ukrainian?"
I am not sure whether to take your questions as personal or merely theoretical. Have you been turned down for a job because you can't speak Ukrainian? Or do you actually run a business that employs anyone? And was this because you were trying to work with the government or something?
Official language status merely means that it is the language of the constitution and the government. Ukraine also makes it the primary language of all schools, which makes perfect sense if your goal is to prevent Ukrainian from disappearing from public discourse.
Ukrainian the language is also, for many reasons, deeply tied to Ukrainian nationhood, and therefore, since you distain Ukrainian nationhood, you of course do not see any value in the language. Fortunately, no government, not Yushchenko, not Yanukovych, not anybody, is going to deny its own sovereignty, and so the the langauge question deeply tied to that sovereignty is always going to generate loud noise, but be dropped as politically problematic.
Like I said before, if this were not so, Yanukovych would have done at least one tiny thing for the promotion of Russian in his two years as PM. He did not, he will not. He will merely shout about it in the lead up to this election to get votes.
I am for the promotion of Ukrainian through schools, and through having a single language of government. If it also currently extends to making it the required langauge of all business all the time, then I am opposed, but that would clash greatly with what I saw of Ukraine (Leopolis describes it nicely, though). There's also the question of how much should be required in advertising and TV, but none of those were the question: making Russian an official language was.
Yep - I was too hasty on California and US. I thought it was an official language since in any government institution in US, you could be serviced in Spanish. I am spanking myself right now for not checking the laws. The analogy doesnt even apply really - Mexican immigrants (majority of them being illegal) and Russians in Ukraine are not even remotely comparable. My point perhaps could be emphasized differently - arguing for language policy by an American non-speaker from California is pointless, divisive, unimportant!
There is absolutely no comparison to Dutch since:
a) its a monarchy
b) everything in Netherlands comes with a handy dandy English, French or German translation.
c) when it comes to education, Netherlands is one of the most liberal regimes even offering education in Turkish and Arabic and offering minority language protection even to minor dialects of Dutch. Most Dutch are trilingual.
Official language status means that it is the language of the constitution and the government. And since the government must represent the language of its electorate, Ukraine should be biliangual. Ukrainian should be a primary language in Ukrainian schools, and Russian should be Russian in Russian schools - this was a Soviet model and it worked just fine to prevent Ukrainian from disappearing from public discourse. Ukrainian language is tied to post-1991 Ukrainian nationhood. Prior to 1991, or rather prior to 1917 there was no such thing as 'Ukrainian nationhood'. 'Ukrainian' is an invented nationality/ethnicity - a little pet project of greater powers (Austria, Poland, Germany) to split Ukraine along ethnic lines. Ukrainian self-identification has ALWAYS BEEN along the lines of Orthodox Church - not language.
I do disdain Ukrainian nationhood in its current form - a petty, weak, groveling ethnocracy along the Baltic model, without a functional government and a shrinking economy.
Why is that that Yushenko's (I refuse to call him President) website comes in Ukrainian, Russian, and English versions?
Why is immigration right now one of the most primary agenda's in US, while status of Russians is a divisive, unimportant issue? Can somebody other than Dan, explain these things to me?
Assuming you actually want a response to the previous posting: "the Netherlands is a monarchy". So you seriously want to remove it from the discussion because it still has a powerless royal figurehead sitting beside its obviously democratic structure?
"everything in Netherlands comes with a handy dandy English, French or German translation....[stuff about Netherlands respecting foreign cultures]."
Ok, so putting aside the conflicts the Dutch have been having over their own permissiveness and problems with Muslim non-integration, this makes it a good model.
I never said I thought there should be no Russian spoken in Ukraine. I merely said Russian should not be made a second official language. You say "Ukraine should be bilingual", I say it already is.
You say "Ukrainian should be a primary language in Ukrainian schools, and Russian should be Russian in Russian schools - this was a Soviet model and it worked just fine to prevent Ukrainian from disappearing from public discourse."
And this is a bald-faced lie. I will repeat something I said to Michael:
Here is a short list of some of the Ukrainian patriotic figures, writers, poets, and composers who were killed, imprisoned or banned in the Soviet Union:
You could of course count Hrushevsky and Yavorsky some of the first major political figures in Ukraine's modern independent history. Assuming you want to consider them simple political opponents, that leaves: Serhiy Yefremov, The "Executed Renaissance" (writers killed on or around the 20-year anniversary of the October Revolution) : Grigoriy Kosinka, Les Kurbas, Mykola Kulish, Mykola Zerov, Volodomir Pidmohilniy, and Mykola Voroniy.
Then there was Oleksandr Oles, Pavlo Zagrebelniy, Oleksandr Dovzhenko, Lina Kostenko, Mikhailo Dray-Khmara, Lev Kopelev, Oles Honchar, Dmytro Pavlenko
Pavlo Tichina - underwent a "revalation" and started printing communist tracts
Mykola Lysenko, and the "60ers" crew, including: Ivan Dzyuba, Yevhen Svertsyuk, Ivan Svitlichniy, Olena Teliga, and Stus (Vasil).
Stus got killed along with two other other less well-recognized figures, Oleksa Tikhiy and Yuriy Lytvyn, in 1984. We were reminded of the two others in this excellent article (by an author named Diyak):
http://mova.org.ua/books/ukr-vidr/
The important chapter is Chapter 7
The article also mentioned some other figures we'd forgotten about, including: Agatangel Krimskiy, V. Svidzinskiy, and I. Yukhimenka who were burned alive, M. Slabchenko, G. Kholodniy, L. Staritska-Chernyakhivska, Some other "Executed Renaissance" figures - D. Falkivskiy, K. Bureviy, O. Blizko, M. Irchan, V. Polishchuk, O. Slisarenko, P. Filipovich, G. Epik, M. Yaloviy
And I'm going to conclude with Volodymyr Ivasyuk, author of the beautiful Ukrainian folk song "Chorvona Ruta", who died under mysterious circumstances in the 70's.
This is a short list of Ukrainian intellectuals killed by the Soviets, along with the millions of predominantly Ukrainian-speaking peasants targetted by Stalin's Holodomor.
End quote. Ukrainians managed to preserve their language in spite of the concerted efforts of Russia and the Soviets to annihilate it. The mere use of Russian in is no ways even comparably discriminated against to the extent that Ukrainian was in Soviet times.
The reason for this suppression is also in your writing: "Prior to 1991, or rather prior to 1917 there was no such thing as 'Ukrainian nationhood'. 'Ukrainian' is an invented nationality/ethnicity - a little pet project of greater powers (Austria, Poland, Germany) to split Ukraine along ethnic lines."
Which could only be said by a Russophile. Russia had cemented its control of the eastern part of Ukraine as far back as Catherine the Great's time. And as far back as then, it was appropriating Ukrainian history and suppressing Ukrainian identity. The language was dangerous to Russia because it created an affiliation which was not Russian. And every time Ukraine even had a chance of unity attempts were made to unify it. As in 1917, when it would have succeeded in staying independent if Russias had not dominated the easily mobalized city centers (due to an intentional migration/colonization process initiated under Catherine the Great). After that, to eliminate any further possibilities of uprising, Stalin killed off Ukrainians en-mass.
Nonetheless, Ukrainians voted for independence from Russia with the fall of the Soviet Union. (with huge majorities everywhere but Crimea)
Thus you say "why are we Russian speakers being persecuted" as you stand speaking Russian in what is undoubtedly a business whose materials are produced in Russian, in an area where Russian is given special status. And you do it practically knee-deep in the bones of Ukrainians who were slaughtered, imprisoned, and suppressed for their national identity.
Fortunately, no government officials elected in Ukraine will deny the national identity of Ukraine. So your desires for an end to Ukrainian identity will be frustrated no matter who wins in March 26.